Central Virginia is ground zero for data centers, and ground zero of the anti-data-center movement. Despite the flareups over the past two years, one Virginia land use attorney has successfully navigated the turbulent political waters to deliver for his clients and his community.

Charlie Payne believes he is succeeding because he not only wants his clients to win, but because he wants the community to win. The data center deals he handles, Payne says, don’t work unless both parties win. That win-win attitude is due in large part to his ties to the region. He’s from the Fredericksburg area; his family has deep roots in Falmouth.  

In this exclusive interview with the Virginia Free Press, Payne talks about the data center industry, the transformative effect on Central Virginia’s economy, the role of anger and fear in the data center debate, the balance between regulation and the private sector developing data centers, and where data center investments are leading the region.

VFP: Let’s begin with some context. Can you give us an idea of how big data centers’ impact is on Virginia, and how that impact plays out at a local level?

Payne: I’ll answer that with a question. What’s driving Virginia’s economy? It’s technology. 

While data centers themselves don’t produce large numbers of operational jobs, they do generate many indirect employment opportunities that are pretty good jobs. 

Think of the industries data centers touch: nurseries, security firms, financing companies, contractors, fencing companies, site contractors, electrical and plumbing supply companies, to name just a few. It’s phenomenal the impact that data centers have on the local economy.

How could they not? If data center companies are investing $2 billion in each building, and for example there are 10 buildings in one community, do you think that $20 billion is absorbed solely in those buildings? No. 

I’m aware of a fencing company that once only did residential fencing work. Now they only do commercial work because they’re so busy installing fences for data centers.

Think about the heavy equipment companies that are leasing millions of dollars in heavy equipment to contractors  because of all the construction requirements.  

Rappahannock Electrical Cooperative here in Central Virginia will tell you that the growth in their business as a result of data centers translates to more jobs for people. REC has to hire more people, more equipment, as well as surveyors, architects, and engineers as they grow to meet the power demand coming online. 

That touches a lot of people in the community. 

VFP: How does having deep roots in this community shape the way you approach your work on data centers?

Payne: I’m different from most advocates for technology investment for a couple of reasons. One, I understand how data centers got here. Two, the industry doesn’t own me. 

I’m a win-win guy. I want the client to win and the locality to win. It doesn’t work if only one wins. That’s my mentality when I bring a project to the table. 

Also, I’m invested in this area. It’s not like I come into town, shoot it up, and leave. I come to town and stay. I have to deliver. 

Look at the Spotsylvania solar farm. I got beat up on that. But I said, if you do this, technology will follow. And it has. 

I’m invested here, long-term invested here. I want to be successful for this region. 

If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. But I don’t think I am. I think this technology investment, especially what Amazon has done here in Central Virginia, is transformative. It will transform our community. It might take 10 years, but it will come. 

VFP: The transformation and change are evident. Still, this is a tough time for the data center industry, as there’s a lot of anger aimed at these structures. Can you talk about what is driving this anger, and how that is playing out in Central Virginia where you work?

Charlie Payne: I think the backlash against data centers is tied to an overarching issue of which data centers are a symptom. The real anger in the country at this moment toward technology is grounded in distrust. 

People don’t trust government. They don’t trust big corporations. And they feel like they are being taken advantage of. 

What I try to do is create context for why data center investment is here in this region.

I don’t discount what folks who oppose data centers are saying. I would never discount it, and I appreciate their input. 

But a lot of their commentary is the same stuff that we have debunked many, many times. And that commentary is coming from outside the immediate region. Things like concerns about water, the value of people’s homes. Even the power bill side of this thing. These are concerns that are coming from national-level talking points.

At the local government level, where data center growth and investment physically manifests itself, this debate shouldn’t be political. It should be solution-driven. 

VFP: Why are national- and state-level politics having such an impact on local economic decision-making?

Payne: Unfortunately, what happens at the national level and at the state level trickles down to the local level, leading folks to celebrate problems. It’s not about resolving real concerns that folks have. 

And the real concerns at the local level are: How are we going to pay for schools? How will we be able to keep good teachers? How will we be able to pay for public safety? How will we be able to keep great first responders? How are we going to be able to improve our infrastructure? How are we going to be able to afford to do all these things? 

Those are the things that are being tackled at the local level.

It’s important to remind local jurisdictions that data centers are nothing more than the technology infrastructure that we depend on every single day. It’s as important, arguably, as power. 

So I get down to that part, and say: This is why data centers are interested in this region, and this is how they’re different from the ones in Northern Virginia. There, a piecemeal approach to data center development led to sprawl. There was no planning. You’ve got subdivisions that are 50 to 75 feet away from data centers. 

Here in Central Virginia – Caroline County, Fredericksburg, Spotsylvania and Stafford counties – we’ve leaned into data center campuses. The buildings are bundled near power infrastructure so that they’re not sprawled out, and we’re concentrating this investment growth in one location, arguably at a great distance away from dense development. 

I remind people that we are not the same as Northern Virginia, that we’ve been attempting to attract this investment for 15 years, and now it’s finally here. I also emphasize that we’re taking a responsible approach to how data centers should be developed in our community. 

VFP: To what extent do the financial benefits move people when talking about data center development?

Payne: A great deal. When data centers are developed in our community, there’s a windfall benefit. And there’s nothing like it. 

Every jurisdiction in this region faces revenue challenges. Stafford County has increased taxes 57 percent since 2021. It has one of the highest tax rates in the Commonwealth. 

We encourage people to look at Loudoun. They generate $1.3 billion in tax revenue annually from data centers. They have one of the lowest real estate tax rates, yet one of the wealthiest counties in the country. They’ve got the best schools, the best parks, they get the best amenities of any other jurisdiction in the commonwealth because of data centers. And, they continue to reduce taxes. 

VFP: But isn’t the concentration of data centers in Loudoun one of the main arguments against data centers in your region?

Payne: Yes, but we remind people you don’t need a Loudoun County in Stafford County or in Spotsylvania County. Rather, what you need to do is take advantage of the revenue opportunities so that you can take control of the county’s future.

It’s important to remember that there are no manufacturing companies coming to Stafford, and it would take something on the order of 50 Buc-ees to produce the revenue that one Stafford Technology Campus project will produce. 

We don’t want 50 Buc-ees with all the traffic and all the impacts and the lower wages; we want to attract investment here in which for every dollar we invest, we get $26 back. 

That to me is the baseline. It’s about economics. And economics matter.

They matter to local elected officials because they’re trying to solve a bigger problem. That problem is how do we afford to be a prosperous, good governing local jurisdiction? 

In Stafford they just built a new high school for $285 million. And they probably need another one. Then there is the reality that the district schools require something on the order of $1.5 billion school facilities. 

How does the county pay for all this stuff?

In an environment where government is contracting – Virginia used to be a big benefactor of the federal government, but we lost 48,000 jobs last year – what’s the solution? 

VFP: What misperceptions of data centers do you confront in government and among citizens that make it more difficult to sell the economic upsides?

Payne: Jurisdictions like Stafford County see it as a heavy industry. That’s how they classify data centers. That creates a misleading perception of what they really are.

Data centers are really just big office buildings with very few people in them and a bunch of computer servers. 

Other than the power infrastructure, they are not heavy industry. They don’t create a lot of traffic and they don’t lead to lots of families with school-aged kids. They pay well above average salaries in the county. And they bring numerous benefits to blue-collar workers through the construction jobs they create. 

We’re talking about the full scope of the employment sector with this industry here being satisfied with one project. That’s what data centers are. 

Then it’s important to remind local jurisdictions that data centers are nothing more than the technology infrastructure that we depend on every single day. It’s as important, arguably, as power. 

It’s what we use for our virtual meetings, what our healthcare system depends on, our first responders, too. It’s critical to national defense, as well as our entertainment assets. It touches absolutely everything we do. 

VFP: The growth of data centers has spurred a growing amount of regulation around the industry. What’s the right balance between private development and government oversight?

We’re just beginning to see the evolution of a greater regulatory environment regarding data centers because of the demand they place on other infrastructure, like power. 

Think about when power generation and rail first came along. Neither was regulated. Both were driven by the private sector. Once they became part of everyone’s daily life, then regulation began to grow so as to control where rail lines and power lines went. Sometimes this curtailed growth in certain areas.

Regulation also, however, required power and rail infrastructure to go into areas private industry didn’t want to go. That’s how power co-ops came about. 

So what’s happening is the development of a process for creating a set of regulations that help guide the development process. The industry itself, however, is still very much on the private side, because the private side is saying we need data centers to facilitate our technological advancements. 

Data centers are nothing more than infrastructure. And the demand for technology is driving the demand for data centers.  

VFP: Beyond misperceptions of what data centers are, a great amount of fear has arisen about them. What has created the fear? 

Payne: Well, in many ways the industry hasn’t done itself any favors. They’ve not been very transparent about who they are, why data centers are necessary, and they allowed the opposition to define who they are. Then they didn’t correct the narrative about power use, water use, etc. 

The misinformation narrative is driven in my opinion by fear, confusion and a lack of understanding regarding the facts about today’s data centers. It has also become very political in a supercharged political environment. We need to understand that data centers are simply technology infrastructure that use very low amounts of water, are not loud, do not adversely impact property values and are paying for their share of power demands. Outside anti-data center interest groups have seized on this politically charged environment to facilitate their agendas. 

There are people – both in the political sphere and the public sphere – who want the debate to remain shrill and at a high pitch. To be adversarial. I’m not going there. It’s not serving the county. It’s not serving the best interests of everyone in the county. The 50 people who show up at board meetings to protest projects, they matter. But so do the other 160,000 people who live in the county. 

That has led to a lot of the misinformation that we now see.

That’s happening at the same time the economy is making life more challenging. Two-career families are struggling to make ends meet, gas prices are high, food prices are rising, and the overall impact of inflation is keeping people from going on vacation or saving money. 

It’s a perfect storm, and people are really, really frustrated. 

Data centers then become a symbol for people’s anxiety and fears, making them an easy target. 

VFP: How do you address that fear?

I address it by not discounting it. It’s real to people, and I try not to be flippant or disrespectful about it. 

But people need to understand that though they think it’s harmful to them, the facts and the reality don’t bear out many of their fears. 

When I leave public meetings in Spotsylvania and Stafford, I run into people who are attending to protest data centers, and very often they will tell me “I didn’t know that about data centers. I didn’t know that the noise level was lower than what I produce at my own house.” Or “I didn’t know they would generate that much tax revenue”. 

So the more you promote the facts to people who have real concerns, and you do it in a way that is not adversarial, people start listening. 

And when you can have a conversation about the facts, I think you start to change people a bit. Not everybody, but I think you start to change people and bring down the temperature in the room. 

That’s what I try to do. 

There are people – both in the political sphere and the public sphere – who want the debate to remain shrill and at a high pitch. To be adversarial. I’m not going there. It’s not serving the county. It’s not serving the best interests of everyone in the county. 

The 50 people who show up at board meetings to protest projects, they matter. But so do the other 160,000 people who live in the county. 

They’re tired of tax increases, they want better schools for their kids, a responsive public safety, better roads and better utilities and better parks. 

They want government to provide solutions and not be an impairment. 

And the only way you can do that is through revenue.

Every April, the discussions in this region cover two things. One concerns taxes. And the discussion isn’t whether I’m going to increase your taxes, but by how much. And the second concern are services. It’s not whether services will be reduced, but by how much. 

Let’s stop having that conversation, and let’s start having a conversation where we have a solution. 

VFP: Often at meetings people complain that these developments are coming out of nowhere, leaving the impression that they are poorly planned. Or that they’ve intentionally been hidden from public view. What would you say to those people?

Payne: What people forget is that when I’ve got a pending application for 18 months, it has been reviewed by professional staff, professional engineering teams, state agencies, the public. 

Before I get to a board meeting, that thing has been dissected and scrutinized by 20 to 30 planning professionals and legal. 

But I get to the board meeting and people claim that something isn’t true, or is misleading, or inaccurate. 

And yet, when someone stands up and pulls something from their phone, they take it as gospel. 

We have to get people starting to think that the science and the facts and the engineering and the legal requirements are relevant to each one of these applications. They matter, because they are the guardrails that protect people. 

There’s no fact-checking on anything they say. No one questions them. 

We live in a world where facts don’t matter, and I’m trying to shift that.. 

We have to have facts, and we have to have rules, and we have to work within those rules. Without it, it’s chaos. 

We have to get people starting to think that the science and the facts and the engineering and the legal requirements are relevant to each one of these applications. They matter, because they are the guardrails that protect people. 

People are scared and throwing out misinformation from social media. But those things that I lay out – the science, the engineering, the legal requirements – they’re guardrails to address all those things people are concerned about. 

And I think it’s working. I think these localities want to vote for these projects because they know they’re safe. They don’t use a lot of water, they understand the power issue, and they know the economics are nothing like any investment they’ll ever have. Kalahari’s not close, Buc-ee’s isn’t close, and an Amazon distribution facility is not close.

I like to ask people, If you lose this economic development opportunity, what’s going to replace it? There isn’t a No. 2 option. 

VFP: There is an irony here. The very thing that people use to discredit data centers – google, social media – is made possible by data centers. 

Payne: The irony of the opposition is people lean on data centers and AI technology to contest data centers and AI. 

Access to technology and AI information without guardrails, without understanding, leads to information getting misconstrued. 

This is the problem.  

VFP: Power and the the rising costs associated with it are a central argument against data centers. How do you respond to that?

Payne: Power bills are increasing with the rate of inflation. That’s reality. Not per se because of data centers. 

But let’s say a $30 billion investment in your county is going to generate $100 million in tax revenue. And what’s that going to do to your tax burden? Reduce it. 

Where is the bubble in Virginia? We’ve been building data centers in Virginia since 1997, we’re the data center capital of the world. Before there was a discussion of a bubble, we already had, what, 600 data centers? That’s 30-plus years of sustainable technology investment. 

This energy increase is real, but it’s going to happen whether the data center project is there or not. A data center project in your community is a surplus win on tax obligations at the local level. So it will balance out the power cost issue.

VFP: Are you worried about a bubble?

Payne: Where is the bubble in Virginia? We’ve been building data centers in Virginia since 1997, we’re the data center capital of the world. Before there was a discussion of a bubble, we already had, what, 600 data centers? That’s 30-plus years of sustainable technology investment. 

What you’re seeing now on a bubble question is the AI question, right? 

But most data centers in this area are cloud-based data centers, not AI based.  

VFP: What are people missing in the data center debate?

Payne: All the infrastructure data center companies are building – roads, utilities. These aren’t just serving the data center community. 

Stack picked up roughly $60 million in CIP projects that were on the books in Stafford County before Stack ever showed up. Now, Stafford County is getting new water capacity that the tax payers don’t have to pay for. 

Same thing with the Kings Corridor project and utility infrastructure. The new infrastructure that will be built via this project will support water and sewer demands in Stafford County.

Then there are the things that Amazon does in the community with schools, Germanna, and more. 

They’re also investing locally in the environment, food banks, education and more.